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Announcer
It's time once again for Dialogue Conspiracy with Mae Brussell.
Opening: No. 288 and the new Sunday slot
Announcer
For the past 14 years, Mae has been researching the facts behind political assassinations and abuses of power in this country. Her program relates the news of the week to political conspiracies. Dialogue Conspiracy originates with KLRB-FM in Carmel, California. And now, Mae Brussell.
Mae Brussell
Good afternoon. This is Mae Brussell in Carmel. This is September the 26th, 1977. and it's Dialogue Conspiracy Number 288. Last week I talked about the subject, We Never Went to the Moon, and the possibility that the moon landing was faked, the possibility of the mind control of the astronauts, and I got a lot of response to that program, and I want to continue some more on that subject in a few weeks from now because people were particularly interested into the origins of the Defense Intelligence Agency. and into the story of the astronauts, their response upon landing. And there have been about eight deaths of astronauts in non-space jobs since the testing of these men, mysterious accidents. And, of course, the question was raised in that book that I quoted, was something done to them to get rid of those people that knew too much or who were breaking down under the possible programming.
Bernstein’s article announced
Mae Brussell
I want to mention briefly that next week Rolling Stones is going to have out that article, October the 4th is the date for it to be presented on the news media, the 400 persons in the news media that worked with the CIA or still work with the CIA, actually. I have a copy of it here, and I'm not going to go into it on the air because there's not going to be enough time to cover that article as it's written by Carl Bernstein. And the best thing, I think, is to buy it before they're sold out on the stands if it comes out. The CIA has... been struggling with the Rolling Stones in New York City, and I have information that they're trying to suppress the article. There's been a lot of hassling going on, and I hope that they're able to get this article out, and you'll be able to have it in your hands. And I will mention a few parts of it because of the new broadcast that's coming on Friday and Sunday night, American Broadcasting, on the story of Lee Harvey Oswald, and I want to go into that a little bit as an example of the way the CIA is still being used. Using, rather, the news media to give these stories that have no basis in fact. Before I go too far into Dialogue Conspiracy today, I do want to mention that we are changing the format after this program.
It's going to be different.
The format change, KZAP, and the tapes
Mae Brussell
It's going to be on Sunday evenings from 10 to 10.30. No more Monday from 5.15 to 6 o'clock. I will be able to reach, I think, a larger audience. There's a lot of students, people coming home from work, that tell me they either sit in the car because they have FM radio or they run into the house because they have an FM and miss part of the program. And I think that I'll be able to reach a lot of people that have told me that it's been difficult to catch it at the particular hour that we've had it, although they've managed to do it, and have missed some shows because they were away the hour on a holiday. Usually we have these Monday holidays. people away and lose some of the continuity and ask me for tapes. So Sunday evening is a pretty good time. Everyone should be home from hiking or boating or taking trips and be calmed down for the evening. It'll be from 10 to 10.30. And we're going to drop 15 minutes of this show. I've been accused of speaking too fast. Wait until next week until you hear me rolling along. I'll have to condense that time or just leave out that information and hope that you pick it up in the books that I suggest. And I won't be able to do so much. thinking for you or digesting of these books i'll give you titles of good books to read and the authors a lot of good old material coming out both i read constantly a lot of old books as well as the new books and you'll have to do the homework yourself and i'll just maybe bring out a few of the highlights and why the book is important or the article is important we uh discussed on Dialogue Conspiracy august the 8th that's number 281 the program you
The possibility in Sacramento of doing a live show 10 minutes a week as against the tape show. We've done it for four weeks. The first week was like 10 minutes and live and that wasn't satisfactory. We did 45 minutes live and we've done 30 minutes and 10 minutes. But the listeners aren't satisfied and I'm not satisfied and they responded with a lot of mail and a lot of telephone calls. So KZAP is going back to Dialogue Conspiracy with 30 minute time slot. And so this is a good time, while they're putting on 30 minutes to cut it here at this end. Some of you will miss the information. A lot of you may think it's too much information for one time period anyway, and you can't please everybody. I think it'll be okay. I'm happy with it. And I think it has another advantage, too. There are a lot of people ordering the tape cassettes. They're going out to about 30 states now. I have a notebook completely filled with people that are getting these shows and ordering them all the time. And there are a lot of people who want them, who can't afford them. They seem pretty high. The tape cassettes have been $40.20 for two shows, 45-minute shows back-to-back. The price will be dropped to $3.50 for two shows, 60-minute tapes or... the whole month when there's four weeks of the month will only be seven dollars and i think a lot of people will be able to afford that a lot easier than the extra eight dollars and forty cents if you add it up over a period of time i think it does make a difference and i'm glad to get the material out there'll be shorter tapes 30 minutes each side and those of you who are hearing this tape who sent me checks in advance i keep a record of the tapes that you've ordered and the money and I'll just read it to figure it out.
apply it to the next tapes and you'll be getting after this a 30 minute tape instead of the 45 minute and of course people call from all over the country and they write letters and i'm answering about 20 or 30 letters a week right to my home which you usually do and are called the house and if there's anything that we haven't covered in that extra 10 or 15 minutes you can speak to me and i'll be glad to go over it with you and that is the way it'll come out well as i say the rolling stones October the 4th. This next week has a dynamite article. It's written by Carl Bernstein, one of the two, he was the partner of Bob Woodward, got out the Watergate story and two books on Watergate, as you know. As I said, they tried to stop the article in New York City, but from what I've heard, at least a day-to-day basis, it will be able to be released.
The outlets Bernstein names
Mae Brussell
And this document, I have it here, it's about 60 pages copied, mentions people like Joseph Alsop. The New York Times, The Washington Post, Henry Luce, Time, Life magazine, of course, owned by Luce before Life went out of business, Louisville Courier-Journal, the Copley News Service out of San Diego, the American Broadcasting Company, ABC, the National Broadcasting Company, United Press, CBS, the Columbia Broadcasting, the Hearst Newspapers, and Reuters have all worked and still work for the CIA. The article is clouded by Carl Bernstein half apologizing that they formerly used overseas agents, but when you talk to him about the assassinations and conspiracies in the United States, which various researchers did at the time of Watergate, Carl Bernstein was covering the tracks of the assassinations. And remember, in their book on Watergate and the second book, The Final Days, they never went into the subject of Howard Hughes at the time of Watergate or the killing of J. Edgar Hoover or... the murder of Mary Jo Kopechny, or the shooting of George Wallace, all of which had to do with the election of 1972, and all of these events had Watergate defendants' names linked into those events.
I don't consider Carl Bernstein a flaming investigator. He covers the field, and he covers up. And maybe one of the purposes of clearing the news media, because they have been mentioned in terms of working in the United States, And suppressing information was to say that this happened formerly and it was in the past. It wasn't in the past. It'll go on tomorrow. But it's a good article for what it tells you, and then we have to take it to the next step. I'm reminded when I read this article of the minutes of the Warren Commission meeting.
The Warren Commission handles the press
Mae Brussell
I have a bound volume of some of the minutes of the Warren Commission that David Lifton got out. Gerald Ford was a member of the Warren Commission, you remember, and the subject came up at one of the first meetings. How should we handle the press? What will we do about news coverages? And then it was Gerald Ford, the member of the Warren Commission, who had been appointed there by Richard Nixon, who said, gentlemen, I can handle the AP and the UPI, meaning the Associated Press and the United Press. So Gerald Ford had that kind of clout in 1964. That was 13 years ago, going on 14 years. The entire Warren Commission didn't have to worry about lying about who killed the President of the United States because he could handle the two major wire services that go out around the world. He said, gentlemen, I can handle the AP and the UPI. There's another section of the Warren Commission meetings where the members are there. In fact, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Earl Warren, is present. Other members, distinguished members of the Warren Commission. And they wanted to know what to do about a person named Mark Lane, who was exposing some of the early conspiracies, or Joe Joesten from Germany, who had written Oswald the Assassin or Fall Guy.
And Mark Lane's rush to judgment was being... put together. Joesten had a book coming out. They came out shortly after the Warren report was published. And at the minutes of the meeting, they said, what will we do about these authors? Also, Buchanan in Paris wrote Who Killed Kennedy? So the subject, when it was broached, was answered with, let's get the president of the United Press down here, and they mentioned his name, and the president of the Associated Press. Bring them here, and we'll say, do you have any evidence of a conspiracy? And if they say in their files they don't have any evidence of a conspiracy, that ends the subject. Now, the implications on that are pretty broad, if you just think about it. What they were saying was, don't bring in Mark Lane and ask him, what evidence do you have that we don't have? Don't bring in Joesten and say, where are you getting your information? Maybe you have something the FBI or the CIA or Dallas police didn't tell us. You gentlemen are writing a book. Maybe we should include it into our investigation. No. The mass media uses the propaganda machine to cover the big lie. So all the Warren Commission did was call the major media and said, gentlemen, do you have anything you see about a conspiracy? And they said no. Therefore, Mark Lane and Thomas Buchanan and Joe Joesten were put aside.
And later they became the first three people to begin getting books published about the errors of the Warren Commission. Now, CBS is mentioned. of course, throughout this document, by Carl Bernstein. I think of Walter Cronkite from Houston, Texas, who went on to become the great anchorman of CBS. Dan Rathers from Dallas, Texas, who was in Dallas the day John Kennedy was killed, and he's been a cover-up artist of the assassinations from the word go. Bill Moyers was another one of the team. Bill Moyers has been promoted or asked for the appointment to be along with Walter Cronkite next year, fall, I guess, or spring. CBS News Anchorman. Bill Moyers was with Lyndon Johnson at the time John Kennedy was killed. He was Lyndon Johnson's press secretary when all the lying and covering up was going on. And he's mentioned in the book Who's Who in the CIA. There's a biography of Bill Moyers in that book that was published a few years ago, along with Frank Church and some other well-known investigators who look into these assassination matters when the CIA has been named as a culprit. So Bill Moyers is getting his promotion now. Jack Valenti was part of that team and became motion picture czar, and Lyndon Johnson appointed to that job.
So we have a CIA man being suggested to go along with Walter Cronkite and CBS News when the CBS is named in the Bernstein document, the article, as being an integral part of this entire Cold War period.
Time-Life: the rifle photograph, the Zapruder film, Mr. Rocco
Mae Brussell
Of course, Henry Luce is named Time Life magazine. has been the conduit of not only the Cold War for patriotic reasons, but has played an active part specifically in the Kennedy assassination. We could do a whole show after you read the Rolling Stone article on each branch that is mentioned in there of the television and the news and show how they covered up the assassinations. Hays Gorey, who writes for Time magazine and always covers the assassination information, Debated with me on the assassination up in Oregon, Eugene, Oregon, last year. We were both invited together to speak, and he carried the same stories about Lee Harvey Oswald shooting the rifle from the Texas School Book Depository. And I presented the site of Lee Harvey Oswald, the agent, who went in January of 1960 to a Minsk radio factory, and the U-2 was down in May 1960, and that Lee Harvey Oswald was an agent of the United States government who helped break the détente. in 1960 that embarrassed President Eisenhower. Time magazine and life as it existed in those days was notorious in the assassination story. They printed immediately that picture of Lee Harvey Oswald holding a rifle, that famous picture that was cut off at the chin and another body was put on there.
It was Oswald's head above and a crooked body was holding this rifle. The shadows weren't consistent. You remember under the nose the sun was straight up and down. When the rifle shadows were in back and the sun was in front of the body. They were quick to print that and show Oswald's guilt. Life magazine quickly brought up the movie of Abraham Zapruder and doctored that up and switched the frames around. The Warren Commission moved those around. That was the movie that showed the killing of President Kennedy and his head going backwards, showing how the weapon with the fatal bullet came from the side to the right of John Kennedy. They brought up the pictures of Mr. Rocco. His life was threatened. He was a man who was inside of Jack Ruby's nightclub who had pictures that could possibly link Bernard Weissman. and Jack Ruby and members of the YAF that had come from Germany, military intelligence, into the Dallas-Fort Worth area for the time of the assassination. These pictures were quickly brought up, and there was a mystery about those pictures. And then, of course, Life magazine published on their cover the notorious diary of Lee Harvey Oswald that was leaked in the spring of 1964 when the Warren Commission was working. It was leaked by none other than Warren Commission member Gerald Ford. the original diary.
It was not located at the time that Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested. Nobody knows how they came about to find it. Nobody ever fingerprinted. It wasn't written in the style that Oswald wrote. At least letters and applications for jobs and State Department letters and his Marine records, this had no resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald. And so time and life were a conduit in the political assassinations. Now this article comes out that the New York Times was the best agent that they had by far. And of course the New York Times for the CIA have been blood brothers.
The New York Times and ABC’s Oswald trial
Mae Brussell
It was the New York Times that published the immediate Warren report and got it out on the stands with an introduction by Salisbury saying that anybody who questioned the Warren report that the government was printing was mentally deranged, that they were unpatriotic. They weren't serving their country. They would be mercenaries. They'd be mentally sick. They could have at least put an introduction and said, here is the book. Figure it out for yourself. Read it. History will be the judge. The New York Times has been a propaganda of the CIA, their right arm all along. And I recently finished an article for a conspiracy newsletter out of Dearborn, Michigan. And I said what is known as the liberal Washington Post or the New York Times would make Adolf Hitler blush. They do such a good job. And, of course, the Washington Post and Newsweek, they own Newsweek, too, is a conduit of the CIA. So the American Broadcasting Company is named as well as CBS. And an example of the American Broadcasting Company being used by the CIA, as I say, will be this Friday night and Sunday night, is a two-part story, The Trial of Lee Harvey Oswald. Now all of the information taken for this subject is going to be taken from the Warren Report.
And if you read the Warren Report, you would believe Oswald was guilty. A TV guide has a little form and you're supposed to watch the show and then send in your decision, was Oswald guilty? Jack Ruby tried him the first time. He was the judge and jury and killed Lee Harvey Oswald. And now you, the audience, will have a chance to play your little game. You might. write to the station. This would be the chance for those of you that listen to this show. Take the address and write to the American Broadcasting Company and say, why don't you let Mae Brussell do a program on Lee Harvey Oswald based on the 26 volumes that the government printed and sold in 1964 and present this evidence. Then take another vote and see if Lee Harvey Oswald was guilty. Because in the 26 volumes, there isn't any evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald owned a rifle, fired a rifle, every piece of evidence that linked him to the assassination can be proven to be forged and planted. Perjured testimony, bought testimony, and what they couldn't buy or fake, they killed the witnesses. I would like to present a two-hour, four-part show on Lee Harvey Oswald and then have you take a vote.
It's interesting that 80% of the population in the United States no longer believe the Warren Report. And I think overseas in Europe and Asia, that must be about 99% because they still get more news than we get. But every generation has to pass this story off as history. It doesn't matter if you don't believe it or not. There's going to be a 10 or 11-year-old, 12-year-old child in your home, someone 17 or 18, and they'll pick up the TV guide and they'll see the movie. So that every generation has to get the big lie and the brainwash. the way that ABC does their job. And then in another month or two, you'll see Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald's story put out by CBS, and it will roll along, and we'll have another job, and the beat goes on. Now, what can you do if the CIA controls the entire news media, if Carl Bernstein's right? They control the Associated Press, United Press, Reuters, Newsweek, Time, The, uh, the, uh... newspapers, the television, these are the main sources of information. There isn't much you can do. I've done as much as I can as any one person can do. I never dreamt when I started my research that I would be doing as much as I have done. gotten as far as I have in spreading this information around the country.
What listeners can do
Mae Brussell
I think one of the things you can do is use your pen more. If you don't like what's going on, you have a chance to write to those stations and tell them you don't like their lies. You have a chance to turn off the stations and send a letter coming and say, I know that you're lying about these historical facts, so I don't want to watch the programming anymore. You can send in... Letters to editors, you can write to your congressman, you can say I'm not satisfied with these investigations, and you can call talk shows on the radio, the West Coast, there's KGO and Ray Briem down in Los Angeles, New York, there's Candy Jones and there's a Bob Williams, there's talk shows going on in various cities around the country. You can call up these talk shows. They do reach all around the country. And put down the program and ask why the real researchers. are not allowed to work with these networks in any shape or form and why they continue to pass out these lies. And I think the best thing is to pull out the plugs. I know that on just this station here in Carmel, by doing this show, I've reached to people, as I say, in 30 states, and I travel around, and I'm getting ready for another trip soon on a really exciting venture. And you can meet people you wouldn't believe you could meet that I have met through the research and work.
And I... I think one of the most satisfying things is that I've met students that are now going into journalism because of listening to Dialogue Conspiracy and radio work. I know one out in Salinas, and I was lecturing up in Seattle and met somebody, and one in San Francisco and several in Sacramento and in New York and Philadelphia and also in Florida. I could just keep naming people that have gone into investigative journalism that write to me. that send me articles.
Ted Gandolfo and the other researchers
Mae Brussell
There's a woman in Minneapolis that sends me books and articles filled with information, and then I can spread it on and share it with all of you. There's a New York researcher by the name of Ted Gandolfo who has collected the best accumulation of tape recordings of assassination information ever since the day that John Kennedy was killed. Newspaper interviews, congressional hearings, and talk shows and lectures. Of all the various researchers, and he has literally thousands and thousands of hours of tape-recorded library, just like I've collected probably the best-published library in the United States, the private library of political assassinations, the books and articles I have. Ted Gandolfo has these tapes in New York, and he offered them to the House Committee in Washington. They don't want his research, they don't want my documents or other people's work. So he's taken on a project now of cable television. And he's starting next Friday night in New York City Cable TV, and he's going to have an hour show. It's advertised in the New York Cable TV Guide this week. It's called Assassination. USA, Ted Gandolfo, longtime private researcher, is going to be host of a weekly show to deal specifically with information that has been suppressed relating to the assassination of John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King. he will draw upon his personally compiled tape library. of more than 4,000 hours, and he's going to take live phone-ins.
After accumulating all of this work, he realized that it's not enough to get on the telephone and call me every day and Carmel or other researchers. He's in constant communication with Harold Weisberg, who's done such fantastic work. His work isn't used by the committee in Washington. Harold doesn't trust them, and here he's published. Whitewash 1, 2, 3, and 4, and he has Frame-Up on the Martin Luther King assassination. Penn Jones has written four books, Forgive My Grief, volumes 1, 2, 3, and 4. Penn has gotten out a newsletter which you can subscribe to. It's $24 a year, and you can contact me if you want the address, or just write Midlothian, Texas. He has a fantastic newsletter going out. Ted Gandolfo will have tapes of his weekly television show if you want. And now tapes are available of Dialogue Conspiracy. And we feel very strongly, people like Ted Gandolfo or Penn Jones or myself or Harold Weisberg, that by permeating the media in our own little way, whatever it is, and staying with it and staying with these facts, that we can reach a lot of people through the mainstream of America. Of course, I write a lot of articles continuously for Midnight. which is a small newspaper sold at the liquor stores and grocery stores, but through one recent article in Midnight that just came out, the one that I mentioned two weeks ago, a certain person called me out of the boundaries of the continental United States and has now provided me, is going to provide me, with some of the most important documents that are available to any researcher. in the country, and I'm not free to go into them right now. But the point is, he's been reading all the articles I've been publishing. He hasn't heard my radio programs. I'm going to be sending some tapes, but just permeating the news with these facts will reach the mainstream of America, and it has to be done, and it has to be done as
Sylvia Meagher’s index and the Torbitt document
Mae Brussell
often as necessary and by as many people who want to get started in calling the talk shows, writing letters, writing newsletters, and sharing information. Sylvia Meagher, who did that fine book, The Accessories After the Fact, and the subject index to the Warren Commission hearings, is going to be on Ted Gandolfo's program. There's a section of Sylvia's book which I have to take issue with her about. The subject index leaves out the name, I think I mentioned, on Dialogue Conspiracy, of Howard Hughes, and it also leaves out the names of 20 people from military intelligence that infiltrated the YAF and the Dallas-Fort Worth area. And I don't know why Sylvia left those out. I saw her when I was in New York last time, and we talked about that Torbitt document that is so outstanding, the research on the Kennedy assassination. And she said that she didn't have it, and she didn't want to have it. And you have to discriminate in these researchers how much they want to know, how much they're working on a need to know. Are they really just saturated, or is there an order? Are the researchers given cues of what to print or not to print? I can name 12 researchers in the Kennedy assassination, the most famous ones who get in the media, who are absolutely working on a need-to-know basis, and I would challenge them.
But the important thing, I don't think Ted is going to challenge her on the program. He'll use the information which she has, which is good. And if the New York listeners can read her book and absorb that much, Then there one step ahead and then they can go on. It's like stepping stones of awareness to break this assassination trip. And the reason I work with such speed and I really spend some part of every day working and sometimes as many as 12 or 14 hours is I do think that we're going to see the fruits of the effort will be paid off in the next elections or we're going to be sorry that we didn't become more aware of. Some of the things that are happening in the news that I've been calling attention to, such as the chemicals in the food, the mind control, the weather control, the weapons systems, there's a lot of things happening to people in America. I have piles of articles that I don't even have time for on the program that are important. And they're shaping our lives, our health, our mental health. The statistics of unemployment and mental health in this country are terrible. Food poisoning, they're terrible. How much is purposeful and how much is coincidental is something to be separated, but it has to be considered.
Dieldrin in the food
Mae Brussell
And, of course, I keep working on that and believing that the origin of a lot of this happened when the political assassinations were effective and when the cover-up was effective. Then the next person to get was us, the average citizen or the middle class, and therefore we would begin to feel the squeeze in banking and housing. And our economic security would be shaky. If the assassinations were a plot and they were successful, and you could pinpoint the people who were doing it, which I was able to do after working many, many years, then you can predict what more they're capable of doing based upon who's in the position of controlling these specific chemicals. I just read this week that coffee's coming into the United States with dieldrin and three other deadly... chemicals in it and I've talked about dieldrin that's the cancer poison chemical that was put in school lunch programs coming out of Mississippi chicken farms and sent specifically to Chicago and Detroit to black underprivileged children who could get cancer from this and when it was found that there was dieldrin in the chicken the farmers were paid 10 million dollars to stop production of the chicken, but the people who received it. weren't allocated any money for future health benefits.
Now I see that the American chemical companies are the companies sending this dieldrin and three other poisons down to South America, and it's coming back in coffee. So you have to begin to think twice in defending yourself or your body and not absorbing that coffee if the tests are showing conclusively that dieldrin is in the coffee. Then you have to begin. to switch to herb teas and study the news and study these events and see who's being paid off, who's making the profits, and how far is it going to go. Well, I want to speak a little bit about that committee in Washington, D.C., the House Select Committee. I haven't talked about them for a long time. I called Mr. Robert Blakey, who's heading the committee. I wish I had time to write every member of Congress. Maybe I'll have to get out some kind of a newsletter and say, stop the money, stop the committee, because the committee is a total ripoff. I knew it was as early as 1975, but I've given it enough energy or leeway to watch the direction they're going.
The call to Blakey
Mae Brussell
And I called Mr. Blakey. He's the chief investigator. Donovan Gay is their head investigator, and Mr. Blakey is the man from Cornell University that was brought in to be the chief counsel. I got on the telephone with him last week. Of course, he'd never heard of my name. Even though Ted Gandolfo had a tape-recorded conversation regarding me about a day earlier, Mr. Blakey said he'd never heard of me. I asked him, have you read the Torbitt document? The Torbitt document I'm referring to specifically. is that unpublished manuscript that came out of Texas in 1970 that has been given to the Assassination Information Bureau with their headquarters. They've moved down from Boston to Washington. It names the agents of the Defense Industry Security Command, the Pentagon, the Division 5 of the FBI, and the source of funding of the assassins around the world that was put up through church fronts. The Torbitt document has not been disproven in any shape or form. It's filled with information about who killed John Kennedy. So I said to Mr. Blakey, have you seen the Torbitt document? There's no use for me flying to Washington, D.C. with it if he hasn't.
And the chief investigator said, I can't tell you if I've seen it. I said, you can't tell me yes or no. Either I have it or I don't have it. so that I can send it to you. It's 300 pages. I'll pay for it. It costs time and money to duplicate it. I want to make sure it's in your hands. Can you say, yes, I have it, don't bother, or no, I don't have it, send to me? This is the chief counsel who's supposed to get $2 million within two years' time to investigate the murder of John Kennedy. He said, I will not tell you if I have it. Now, the point is, A, if he has it and doesn't use it, Then he'd be charged. with a cover-up, and therefore he won't admit whether or not he has it. But if they have it there and they're not using it, it is an absolute proof positive that the bottom line of the investigation of the Kennedy assassination has to be the anti-Castro Cubans and the CIA, and that they refuse to go into the links of, say, the eastern Wall Street bankers, the huge corporations in Chicago, General Dynamics, and people whose names are in this document, like John Connolly and Albert Jenner, who was a member of the Warren Commission staff.
And there are the links there of Albert Osborne of the Defense Intelligence Agency, who went to Mexico with Lee Harvey Oswald in the fall of 1962. So the chief attorney there would not say, if he had it, I'm going to send a copy of the Torbitt document to the House Committee in Washington, D.C., and send it registered and in his name. And ask them, please, to acknowledge in some form they received it. Then if they don't use it, that will be a sure-factor way of saying to the Congress, don't throw it up to us later, we researchers, that we have seen this, that you've investigated this document, because later they'll say, we can't go into the Kennedy matter anymore, we've given two years and two million dollars and found no evidence of a conspiracy. So now the trick, it's like serving a subpoena, is to put in Mr. Blakey's hands this document. And if they look into that, it would take them about six years more to really lay on the table who killed John Kennedy. I then said to him, do you have David Lifton's book, the document, the addendum on the Warren Commission? These are the printed meanings of the Warren Commission. And Mr. Blakey said, I don't have to tell you. Well, do you know what that means for somebody like myself who has collected about 800 books on the political assassinations, who spent eight years Cross-filing every single word of the Warren Commission documents, 26 volumes, cross-filing them into approximately 28,000 pages, about 40 or 50 spiral notebooks breaking down all of the testimony that would be useful to this commission.
That man, the chief investigator, would not give me the time of day if I had just come in off the street and used a pay phone and asked him, I have the minutes of the Warren Commission meetings, do you want them? That person should deserve an answer. No, I don't want them. I already have a set. Or yes, send them to us. Why do you think we need them? But all I got from the chief investigator was, I don't have to tell you. And I mentioned to him that in order to be knowledgeable about the assassinations, he has to know about the Torbitt document as well as the minutes of the Warren Commission meetings because they're consistent with the cross-filing I did on the 26 volumes. And he said he was going to hang up on me, and he did. Fortunately, I have learned to tape record these conversations. I didn't use to tape record them, but Ted Gandolfo taught me how to tape record. It's very easy. And they will be historically valuable to show another layer of cover-up so that four years from now, when you find that Mr. Blakey and the Justice Department worked with the CIA, you'll find that the CIA is one more time investigating the assassination of John Kennedy. I mentioned September the 12th on Dialogue Conspiracy two weeks ago that Loran Hall was supposed to be called as a witness before the House Select Committee back there.
Loran Hall’s postponed testimony
Mae Brussell
Loran Eugene Hall is an important witness. We have done some programs on dialogue, conspiracy about him. He was trained in the CIA with the anti-Castro Cubans and for the Bay of Pigs operation. So many witnesses have been killed, and Loran Hall so far has survived. He was with the committee in June, and when he took the 5th and refused to testify, Mr. Blakey said, return in the fall. And I announced, as I say, two weeks ago that Loran Hall was the... supposed to show up on Wednesday, September the 14th, for testimony about the Kennedy assassination, before he was only asked, were you in Dallas the day of the assassination? Well, the committee very nicely postponed Mr. Hall's appearance. He doesn't even have to postpone. They waited. Imagine, from June to September, whatever they were going to ask him in June, they could have asked him, and I was sure that Loran Hall would be dead by September. He's still alive, but conveniently. He's been informed by the committee staff members that his appearance has been put off and that he doesn't have to appear until an unspecified future date. I hope he stays well. Loran Hall has said that the Warren report is, in quotes, a whitewash.
But that's all that he has to say about it.
Marita Lorenz comes forward
Mae Brussell
There is a new witness who came forward. She came forward last week, Marita Lorenz. It was not in the Washington Post or the New York Times or the Associated Press or any of the newspapers listed as CIA conduits. The New York Daily News carried this story about Marita Lorenz, and I think it's important. And again, this is the way the CIA works. By not carrying this on the wire services, maybe they will next week, but as of this date, I haven't seen it. This article came from my friends in New York, September the 20th. This woman says she drove. to Dallas, Texas from Miami with Lee Harvey Oswald and Frank Sturgis several days before John Kennedy was killed. She drove to Dallas, Texas with Frank Sturgis two days before Kennedy was slain, and then she went back to Miami. Now, this will make A.J. Weberman happy. Weberman is the gentleman who wrote the book Coup d'etat in America, and he claims that Frank Sturgis is photographed at Dealey Plaza, and he's one of the tramps. that was taken away by the police and never charged for any crime or mentioned why he was a suspect. And, of course, it makes Mae Brussell happy because in August 1972, I wrote the first published account in the world saying that Frank Sturgis, of Watergate fame, who was arrested at the Watergate Hotel, had a history that went all the way back to the John Kennedy assassination and that the FBI was busy interviewing him the day after the assassination back in Miami.
Well, Marina claims that she was with Orlando Bosch, who's now serving time in Venezuela in prison for blowing up a Cuban airplane last year over Puerto Rico. And she was with Pedro Díaz Lanz and Frank Sturgis. And she says they went to Dallas and they belonged to a secret guerrilla group formed by the CIA called the 40, Operation 40. And this group was trained for assassination teams. Frank Sturgis had... He said earlier that he was part of an assassination team and that he worked for the 40 Committee. And he has admitted that he's close to Mr. Bosch and Mr. Lance and that Mrs. Lorenz could have been in his home and that he did, in fact, know who she was. She's the woman that was hired by the CIA and Robert Maheu, the U.S. cover, to use anti-Castro Cubans. She was a Cuban to poison Fidel Castro, which she didn't do. She was sent to Cuba. to poison him. She worked with assassination teams. This evidence or testimony isn't sworn testimony. It isn't before the committee. It's an interview. The newspaper press conference in New York City by Ms.
The Oswald double
Mae Brussell
Lorenz is important. It's important because Lee Harvey Oswald had a double. One double was in Miami. One double was taken by a car out of the book depository. One, Lee Harvey Oswald, the original Lee Harvey Oswald, I don't want to confuse it, was in this Texas school book depository. He was on the second floor having a Coca-Cola when the police entered. The Oswald that was in Russia left the front of the Texas School Book Depository and got in the car owned by Michael and Ruth Paine. And the Lee Harvey Oswald that was in Russia came back to Mrs. Roberts' rooming house and changed his clothes and a police car honked and he left that rooming house. The Oswald double was in Miami and worked with the anti-Castro Cubans. He was picked up in a theater and was arrested. The double left... the Texas School Book Depository from behind. The other one, as I say, that was in Russia left in front. The double took the bus and the cab and was seen near the theater. I don't believe he killed Officer Tippit at all. The Oswald double was on the fifth floor and fired a rifle from the Texas School Book Depository.
And of course, I believe the Oswald double, the one that was in the car with Ms. Lorenz and Frank Sturgis, was murdered and that the Lee Harvey Oswald you that had been to Russia that left the school book depository from the front of the building, I believe is alive and will surface sometime in the future. I don't believe that that is the one that was killed. But her mentioning that she was with Lee Harvey Oswald and Frank Sturgis two days before the assassination does confirm the fact that there was this double and that he came from Miami and they did have weapons and they were in Dallas and she said they laid out on the... table maps of Dallas and worked with them and spread them out and studied them. And she thought they were going to raid an arsenal or go where weapons were stashed. And Ms. Lorenz is somewhere hiding in New York City. It's hard to get to her. She has, as they've been interviewed by the Associated Press, United Press. You haven't seen her story yet in Time magazine. But she did surface this week, and hopefully she will go to the committee. And, of course, they'll only be confused by the two doubles because you One was working at the Texas School Depository when one was driving in with Frank Sturgis from Miami.
Sign-off
Mae Brussell
But she is an important witness because of the work I've done on the Oswald Doubles. Well, our time is up on Dialogue Conspiracy. I'm about a half a minute over here. I'll see you next Sunday night from 7 to 7.30. And tell your friends in case they missed the program today. And we'll see how the new time slot goes. Until then, take care, and we'll see you next week on Dialogue Conspiracy.
Music
There is a truth, I thought to myself, we're driving down Route 68, the car in front is a Renault, it's not behind, it's not a Ford, there is a truth, how things happen. If it was yesterday, it wasn't 1894 And if tomorrow, not a two come true There'll be another truth in store And those who think that there's no truth That all depends on point of view We'll lock us up and fire the bomb Made only for a gentleman The U.S. President was just a choice He should not incite or claim his fame One November night I heard the screaming horns Of New America that changed their name We're not the same, you and I are not You who call free thinkers enemies You are clearly now the enemies And we will do what we must do To keep it free like Adam's right And she must sing In the name of the slave You must have heard
That we will never really rise again The minds behind the past And you will give the word They cannot just mow us down It's they who are the archanevic ones Ours are free And tender New World. Ours are now the planet's sons. So you and I would disagree. Truth exists but misery. I cry for you. I cry for us. As I prepare to leave the bus.
There is a tree, for you and me, to feast our eyes upon and see the sun is true, before the blind, and we are free, and for our minds.